Layla Moran MP interview

Torrin Wilkins: Hello, and welcome. Today, we are joined by Layla Moran, who is running to be the next leader of the Liberal Democrats. We’ll talk to Layla Moran about her life, why she wants to be the next leader of the Liberal Democrats and her vision for the country.

First of all, Layla, thank you so much for coming on.

Layla Moran: Thank you so much for having me.

Torrin Wilkins: Straight into our first question then:  what inspired you to get involved in politics in the first place, and what has been your journey thus far?

Layla Moran: I was inspired to get into politics because of my work prior, when I was a maths and physics teacher. My mother is a Palestinian Christian from Jerusalem. She was part of the diaspora, left for Jordan, and the family eventually moved to Greece. My father had a very working-class background, the first in his family to go to university, and he went on to join what was then called the European Commission when I was one year old. So we moved around the world with his job, went to places like Ethiopia and Jamaica, and I had a very diverse childhood, experiencing lots of different cultures.

My first love was physics. I went to Imperial College London, where I studied physics; that got me into teaching, and it was through teaching that I became activated because, having had an upbringing like that, I travelled from country to country, some of the poorest in the world, in the late 80s. People will remember Live Aid and the great famine that was happening in Ethiopia at the time: that is when I was there. Comparing that to now, where we are tonight, there will be children in this country who go to bed hungry. And yet we are a G7 country with an economy that should be able to support the most vulnerable in our society. I just think that is so wrong, and it gets me very angry.  You have two choices-well, I find I have two choices when I feel very incensed about something. You either decide it is too much to bear and you are just going to put it in a box, and there is nothing you can do about it, or you find the resolve to try and change it. That is why I joined the Liberal Democrats. So education has always been the top priority for me, but also inequality, generally, in society.

Torrin Wilkins: Given that journey into politics, would you be able to explain a bit more about how that has affected your vision for the country as a whole?

Layla Moran: Yeah, it is worth reflecting on where we are right now, which is that the coronavirus has exposed deep inequalities and unfairness in our society. While over 10 years ago, when I joined the party, I was aware of them, I think we do now have this opportunity because the coronavirus has shown everybody that they exist-we should not go back to how things were before. There is this moment to change and to move forward together as a nation after Brexit, where it felt so divided through this period, where we can have a fairer, greener and more compassionate country, and where everyone has the security to live life as they choose. That is very much the liberal approach to this. We need to have a society where the citizen is empowered, and we use every lever of the state to help that happen, which includes businesses, the state, and information for those people to make better choices.

I have centred my pitch on three pillars. Now, the first one will not surprise you, it is education, because I want to create an education system where children come out world-ready, not just exam-ready. Today, we have seen the Chancellor talk about young people and the fact that the economy is going to be very precarious over the next few years, so we also need an adult retraining programme, and we need to make sure that young people are not left behind.

The second area, which I think is critically important, is that any candidate in this election who does not actively talk about the economy is doing us a disservice as a party, because the COVID-19 crisis is also an economic crisis. It is not just a health crisis. We have important things to say at this point: what I have called for is increased investment in public services and key workers. I found it very revealing that Priti Patel called them low-paid, and then they became essential workers. We need to value our human infrastructure. We also need to look again at how we measure success in our economy. There is a focus on GDP, and I have to say, growth is good. Growth is something that should be welcomed. However, there are other things besides growth that we should be mindful of when we are making investments, particularly the effect it is going to have on the environment and also what effect it might have on people’s mental health.

The third area we need to look at is the welfare state. What I have seen is that when lockdown happened, my postbag tripled, overwhelmed with cases of people trying to get onto Universal Credit and just falling through the cracks. Whilst I would not normally be an advocate for something like this, I would say that before the lockdown, I was sceptical about a Universal Basic Income because there is a really important question about how you pay for it. But at this point of incredible volatility in the economy, I think we do need to be looking at a way to make sure that while that volatility continues, you do not get the situations that my constituents have ended up in. You can call for changes in universal credit all you like, but it just has not materialised. And I think the party is now moving in the direction of a Universal Basic Income as an emergency measure during this time. If we want to continue with it afterwards, then at that point, we may well have the data to be able to make an informed choice.

The third area-and this is critically important because one of my big challenges to the party is: how do we grow our base? How do we attract new people to the party?-is a need to be front-footed on the environment. There is not just an economic crisis; there is also an environmental crisis. Young people up and down the country recognise this, and we have to be front-footed on the economy. I say let us reflect their urgency. Let us have a green-powered recovery. Let us include young people in a young people’s citizens’ assembly, because they will have to bear the brunt of the changes that we will have to make to the economy, to ensure a green recovery. But let us also talk about biodiversity-we do not do enough of that either.

Torrin Wilkins: So, given your vision overall for the country, maybe we should look at something a little bit more specific now in terms of policy. One of the big ones that has been attracting a lot of attention is, of course, universal basic income. How would you see that working? How would you see that policy being implemented in real life?

Layla Moran: We have to be very pragmatic and recognise there are lots of different versions of Universal Basic Income. I do not think we should be heading towards the version of Universal Basic Income that completely removes any other help from the state, in particular, housing. We have a broken housing sector in this country, and I think that should remain separate. If people need help with their housing, ideally, we should be building a lot more social housing; we should be looking at that as an issue. So let us perhaps park that on one side.

In another version, it would replace things like the NHS and subsidies for education, but I do not think we should do that either. So let me be clear: I do not believe that we should have that version of Universal Basic Income. I would see it as a measure to make sure that people receive help if they fall through the cracks. That happens very quickly: what is happening at the moment is people are getting calls on a Monday, and being made redundant on a Thursday. That is the level of change that we are seeing in our society right now, and it is happening very quickly with a lot of insecurity. When that happens, we have to recognise there are families in this country that have two or three jobs, who do not have the financial resilience to then make sure that there is food on the table the next week.

I would favour an introduction at a smallish level, at the level of the basic bills and food that you might have to pay as a family. We are looking at Compass, for example, which has calculated costs on this. They are looking at £40, £50 a week for an adult, maybe a bit more if there are children. That can initially be paid for through closing of tax loopholes, particularly for the very highest earners. The other side of the coronavirus crisis is that about 25% of the population is saving money during this time because they just do not have the same level of expenditure.

Given the increase in inequality, this is another way that we can redistribute so that we are helping those who don’t have the same financial resilience. And I think if you set it at a level like that, then it would be very palatable to people. They would understand that while we are going through this crisis, that is just the way we are going to help each other. If you think about how neighbours got to know each other during this crisis, for the very first time, many people were discovering their communities, growing within them, and feeling that sense of “we are here for each other”. I think a Universal Basic Income, set at a level like that, would be an economic reflection of that sentiment.

Torrin Wilkins: In the current situation with COVID-19, the government is spending huge amounts of money and is implementing a new voucher scheme. So if that is successful, do you think that will bolster the case for a Universal Basic Income?

Layla Moran: I think that is a really interesting idea. We know that if you give out things like that, particularly to the lower earners, it is more likely to kickstart the economy, so I am supportive of that idea. It is also why I called for increases to the child benefit during this time. That is quite a progressive way of making sure that those lowest earners can put food on the table, and make sure that they have the equipment that they need for their children to be able to learn. I do think it’s an interesting model, but let us see if it happens. I would be worried to continue to comment lest by the time you get this out, it is completely irrelevant.

Torrin Wilkins, So, given your proposed policy of Universal Basic Income, which of course will try to win back voters, how broadly will you try to win back voters in former heartlands such as the South West, Wales and even some places in the South East?

Layla Moran: Well, my number one priority if elected leader of the Liberal Democrats is gaining votes and seats at every level, but especially in our former heartlands. The question has to be, how do we win? Since the election, I have been listening, and that is a key way that I lead-I listen, and I have been listening to local campaigners, and they have a wealth of expertise. We have to tap into their expertise, and we need a partnership approach, not a top-down approach as a party. I also think the general election review made it quite clear that we are a bit of a faux democracy: we talk about bottom-up in terms of governance, but we do not do it ourselves in the way we campaign. With the Zoom calls that I have been doing up and down the country, I have offered the opportunity to more than three-quarters of Lib Dem parties in our country to speak to me over the last few weeks, which has given me ideas about where we should go.

But I recognise that we have to do it together, so here are a few ideas that have emerged. We must provide better resources for our volunteers and local parties. And we need to invest in our staff, training, and the development of a new generation of Lib Dem campaigners. Now, the Association of Liberal Democrat Councillors, HQ, and the state and regional parties all have their role to play. So my message to Lib Dem members is, I cannot fix this alone. I need your help.

One of the other areas that needs attention is the message. We heard at the last election that the message was wrong, that people felt they were not being listened to, and we cannot have that again. So we need to find that broad message, very similar to the time of Charles Kennedy: a message that showed people we were on their side, whether it be on schools, the economy, care for loved ones, or the environment. My message will be a simple one, which is that the Liberal Democrats will provide the security for every individual to live life as they choose. We have to revive what liberalism means for this century. But we have big challenges ahead, too, and the first set of challenges is going to be the super set of elections that we expect to have in 2021, which includes the Senedd and Holyrood. We need to build our council base, and in my first year as leader, I am going to go around the country helping others to win those seats, listening to their voters, so that when we get to the 2024 election, we can replicate what we did in Oxford, West and Abingdon. There, I created a group of progressive centre-left voters, which included a lot of Conservative voters who also identify this way. And we overturned a 9,500 Tory majority in 2017 and went on to achieve the best results in my seat’s history. I want to replicate that nationally.

Torrin Wilkins: Let’s return to policies like Universal Basic Income. We have been speaking about those former heartlands, including the more Conservative areas, a bit like the South West, which has gone very Conservative in recent years in terms of the MPs that they have sent back to Parliament. How do you think that they will take Universal Basic Income? Do you think they will like it? Do you think they will dislike it?

Will it be too left-wing for them if they are more Conservative? What do you think the reception for that will be like?

Layla Moran: Well, I went to Devon and Cornwall. So after the election, I went door-knocking because I wanted to answer this question of whether we are going to win, what is the message that is going to resonate in all parts of the UK? Actually, I purposefully did not go door-knocking in London and the South East because, apart from anything else, I feel like I know it pretty well. I stood in Battersea in 2010. I was born in London, and I am an MP for Oxford.

I feel confident that I have got my finger on the pulse of areas where we have a lot of members, and actually where a lot of those Conservative-facing seats where we are closest are. However, that is not good enough. We also need a message that is going to resonate in places like Yorkshire, which was the first place I went, and places like Kent. We need to win back Devon and Cornwall, so I went there and knocked on doors and asked their voters what they think.

I think what we are doing here in this conversation is a very activist thing to do, in that we are mapping voters onto left and right axes that they do not identify with. And what we need to do, primarily,  is understand from those electors what matters to them. And what I heard most strongly from Devon and Cornwall, but particularly Cornwall, was a sense of independence, community, and a real sense that “we are there for each other”.

They were saying to me that they felt left behind, that power lay primarily in Westminster, and that they were not listened to. What was very interesting about the conversations was that it was very easy to then tell people, “Yes, you feel this way. So do I. And it is because I am a liberal”. So when it came to looking after each other, that slightly more rural, slower-paced mentality, which many of us have seen during coronavirus, meant they understood the idea of helping each other out in times of need.

So, although Universal Basic Income is, in commentator terms and activist terms, considered centre-left, and because those voters sometimes vote Tory, they are considered centre-right, I would not describe it in those terms. I would say start where they are. They talk a lot about a sense of community and helping each other, and we can show them that a policy like Universal Basic Income is an answer to that.

Torrin Wilkins: Thank you so much for coming on. We are almost at the end of any questions. My final question was just going to be, if you had to give members of Centre who are also Liberal Democrat members three big reasons that they should vote for you, what would they be?

Layla Moran: Thank you. Well, I mean first of all, I have a proven track record of working with others and making a difference to people’s lives and actually, from the position we are now in, we need to show people that we can do that: I led a campaign for a coronavirus compensation scheme for families of key workers who tragically lose their lives in this period. I did that by getting nearly 100 MPs from all parties, including backbench Conservatives, on board. We also won the backing of the Daily Express newspaper, and they credited me, the party, and the group of MPs for what we were doing. We got it done.

Also, that is not with the levers of government behind us or 50, 60 MPs: I did this during this period. That is what we need in a leader: someone who can get stuff done because that builds credibility and trust. Now I am turning my sights onto the coronavirus crisis. Today, I am pulling together the first all-party parliamentary group for an independent COVID-19 review so that we can avoid a second wave, and I am working across the house to achieve this. I think if you improve people’s lives first, then they will know that they can trust you.

The second reason is that I know how to build a broad base of support; as I described in Oxford West and Abingdon (OxWAb), we won over thousands of Tory voters, not just once but twice. In that seat, I am supported by a progressive alliance of Liberal Democrats, the Green Party and the Labour Party, so you have to do both. There is a bit of a strange conversation at the party going on about who is best placed to take votes off one or the other side. If you look at where we need to win, we need to do both. The reason I know this is going to work is that that is exactly what happened under Paddy Ashdown and Charles Kennedy. When we were last successful as a party, we had leaders who understood that you need to take from both sides and appeal to all sides. That is the approach I am offering, and only I can appeal to both moderate Conservatives and the centre-left.

The final point is that change is essential. And I ask people to look at where we are now. We went to the dizzy heights of 20-something per cent before the election. We then ended on 12 with one fewer MP.  Now, the last opinion poll that I saw had us at 6%, meaning our support has halved since the general election. This is a pivotal moment for the country, and it desperately needs a strong liberal voice, but to win again, the party must rebuild trust and support. The Liberal Democrats can do this by signalling that we are renewed and that we are changing and that we are moving on from the last 10 years, where we have got this wrong on successive occasions, and that we have learned from that period. But it does not mean we forget about it: what it means is we show we have learned from it and move forward. The Liberal Democrats can do this by electing me as leader, because I have navigated change and overcome challenges throughout my life, and I will lead the Liberal Democrats to success again.

Torrin Wilkins: With Keir Starmer and the Labour Party moving towards the centre ground, do you think that there is an opportunity to essentially pick up those Labour Party people who are on the further left of the spectrum to vote Liberal Democrat?

Layla Moran: Potentially. I think where probably the biggest opportunity lies is with young people who, whilst they might have voted for Labour over the last couple of elections, I do not think are necessarily as tied in to them as people assume they are. As we know, young people generally can move across the political spectrum quite quickly. What I want to do for them is to show them hope of a different future. I think they were sold a bit of a unicorn with Jeremy Corbyn, and that was not the answer. That sort of ultra-left-wing, unattainable, top-down, state-driven approach is not the right approach. And, if they want a real difference in their future, it does not lie in the far left; it lies in the liberal approach, and we can show them that they were liberal all along. If you map where their hearts lie, I think a lot of them are Liberal Democrats. It is just that, and a lot of them say this, they feel that they cannot trust us because we never moved on, and the coalition was part of it. 

I think now is the moment where we can recapture that young vote. If we do that, then that is how we rebuild our base for the future, and I do not think that these guys are lost to the far left forever. I think they were always liberal-it is just up to us to make them see that that was always the case.

Torrin Wilkins: Well, that is it for today’s interview. Thank you so much for coming on, Layla.

Layla Moran: And that is it from us today. Really. Thanks so much for inviting me, and what a wonderful initiative. I appreciate it. Thank you so much.

Note: This interview has been edited for grammar, clarity, and flow. The original recording is the final and definitive version.