Layla Moran MP interview

Torrin Wilkins: Hello, and welcome. Today, we are joined by Layla Moran, who is running to be the next leader of the Liberal Democrats. Today, we talk to Layla Moran about her life, why she wants to be the next leader of the Liberal Democrats and her vision for the country.

So first of all, Layla, thank you so much for coming on.

Layla Moran: Thank you so much for having me.

Torrin Wilkins: So straight into our first question then, which is what inspired you to get involved in politics in the first place and what has been your journey thus far?

Layla Moran: So I was inspired to get into politics because of my work prior, which was when I was a maths and physics teacher. My mother is a Palestinian Christian from Jerusalem. She was part of the diaspora, left for Jordan, and the family eventually moved to Greece. My father had a very working-class background, the first in his family to go to university, and he went on to join what was then called the European Commission when I was one year old. So we moved around the world with his job, went to places like Ethiopia and Jamaica, and had a very diverse childhood, experiencing lots of different cultures.

My first love was physics. I went to Imperial College London, where I studied physics. That got me into teaching, and it was through teaching that I became activated because, having had an upbringing like that, where I was travelling from country to country, some of the poorest in the world in the late 80s, people will remember Live Aid and the great famine that was happening in Ethiopia at the time. That is when I was there. Then, comparing that to now, where we are tonight, there will be children in this country who go to bed hungry. And yet we are a G7 country with an economy that should be able to support the most vulnerable in our society. I just think that is so wrong. And it gets me very angry. And you have two choices. Well, I find I have two choices when I feel very incensed about something. You either decide it is too much to bear and you are just going to put it in a box, and there is nothing I can do about it, or you find the resolve to try and change it. And that is why I joined the Liberal Democrats. So education has always been the top priority for me, but also inequality, and more generally, in society.

Torrin Wilkins: Given that journey into politics, would you be able to explain a bit more about how that has affected your vision for the country as a whole?

Layla Moran: Yeah, it is worth us reflecting on where we are right now, which is that the coronavirus has exposed deep inequalities and unfairness in our society. And while, over 10 years ago, when I joined the party, I was aware of them. I think we do now have this opportunity because the coronavirus has shown everybody that they exist, and we should not go back to how things were before. So there is this moment to change and to move forward together as a nation after Brexit, where it felt so divided through this period, where we can have a fairer, greener and more compassionate country and where everyone has the security to live life as they choose. And that is very much the liberal approach to this. We need to have a society where the citizen is empowered, and we use every lever of the state to help that happen, which includes businesses, the state, and information for those people to make better choices.

I have centred my pitch on three pillars. Now, the first one will not surprise you, it is education, because I want to create an education system where children come out world-ready, not just exam-ready. But also today, we have seen the Chancellor talk about young people and the fact that the economy is going to be very precarious over the next few years. So we also need an adult retraining programme, and we need to make sure that young people are not left behind.

The second area, which I think is critically important, is that any candidate in this election who does not actively talk about the economy, I think, is doing us a disservice as a party because the COVID-19 crisis is also an economic crisis. It is not just a crisis. And unless we have important things to say at this point. What I have called for is that we need increased investment in public services and key workers. I found it very revealing that Priti Patel, on the one hand, called them the low-paid and then they became essential workers. We need to value our human infrastructure. We also need to look again at how we measure success in our economy. There is a focus on GDP, and I have to say, growth is good. Growth is something that should be welcomed. However, there are other things besides growth that we should be mindful of when we are making investments, particularly what effect it is going to have on the environment and also what effect it might have on people’s mental health.

The third area is that we need to look at the welfare state. And what I have seen is, when lockdown happened, my postbag tripled, overwhelmed with cases of people trying to get onto Universal Credit and just falling through the cracks. Whilst I would not normally be an advocate for something like this, what I would say is that before the lockdown, I was curious about a Universal Basic Income because there is a really important question about how you pay for it. But at this point of incredible volatility in the economy, I think we do need to be looking at a way to make sure that while that volatility continues, you do not get the situations that I have seen that my constituents have ended up in. You can call for changes in universal credit all you like, but it just has not materialised. And I think the party is now moving in the direction of a Universal Basic Income as an emergency measure during this time. If we want to continue with it afterwards, then at that point, we may well have the data to be able to make an informed choice.

But the third area, and this is critically important because one of my big challenges to the party is: how do we grow our base? How do we attract new people to the party? And we need to be front-footed on the environment. It is not just an economic crisis; it is also an environmental crisis. Young people up and down the country recognise this, and we have to be front-foot on the economy. So I say let us reflect their urgency. Let us have a green-powered recovery. Let us include young people in a young people’s citizens’ assembly because it is going to be young people who are going to have to bear the brunt of the changes that we are going to have to make to the economy to ensure a green recovery. But let us also talk about biodiversity. We do not do enough of that either.

Torrin Wilkins: So, given your vision overall for the country, maybe we should look at something a little bit more specific now in terms of policy. And one of the big ones that has been attracting a lot of attention is, of course, universal basic income. So, how would you see that working? How would you see that policy being implemented in real life?

Layla Moran: We have to be very pragmatic and recognise there are lots of different versions of Universal Basic Income. And I do not think we should be heading towards the version of Universal Basic Income that completely removes any other help from the state, in particular, housing. We have a broken housing sector in this country, and I think that should remain separate. And if people need help with their housing, ideally, we should be building a lot more social housing; we should be looking at that as an issue. So let us perhaps park that on one side.

The other version would also have it replace things like the NHS and subsidies for education. And I do not think we should do that either. So let me be clear. I do not believe that we should be having that version of Universal Basic Income. And the way I would see it is there to make sure that people, if they fall through the cracks, and that happens very quickly, what is happening at the moment is people are getting calls on a Monday, being made redundant on the Thursday. That is the level of change that we are seeing in our society right now. And it is happening very quickly with a lot of insecurity. And when that happens, we have to recognise there are families in this country that have two or three jobs who cannot have the financial resilience to then make sure that there is food on the table the next week.

So I would see an introduction at a smallish level, at the level of the basic bills and food that you might have to pay as a family. We are looking at Compass, for example, which has calculated costs on this. They are looking at £40, £50 a week for an adult, maybe a bit more if there are children. And that can initially be paid for through closing of tax loopholes, particularly for the very highest earners. The other side of the coronavirus crisis is that about 25% of the population is saving money during this time because they just do not have the same level of expenditure.

And there is an increase in inequality. So there is another way that we can redistribute so that we are helping those who just do not have the same financial resilience. And I think if you set it at a level like that, then that would be very palatable to people. And people would understand that while we are going through this crisis, that is just the way we are going to help each other. And if you think about how neighbours got to know each other during this crisis. For the very first time, many people were discovering and growing in their communities and feeling that sense of we are here for each other. I think a Universal Basic Income set at a level like that would be an economic reflection of that.

Torrin Wilkins: In the current situation with COVID-19, the government is spending huge amounts of money and is implementing a new voucher scheme. So if that is successful, do you think that will bolster the case for a Universal Basic Income?

Layla Moran: I think that is a really interesting idea. And what we know is that if you give out things like that, particularly to the lower earners, that is more likely to kickstart the economy. And so I am supportive of that idea. It is also why I called for increases to the child benefit during this time. That is quite a progressive way of making sure that those lowest earners can put food on the table and make sure that they have the equipment that they need for their children to be able to learn. So I do think that that is an interesting model, but let us see if it happens. I would be worried to continue to comment lest by the time you get this out, it is completely irrelevant.

Torrin Wilkins, So, given the policy like initially Universal Basic Income, which of course will try and win back voters, how broadly will you try and win back voters in former heartlands such as the South West, Wales and even some places in the South East?

Layla Moran: Well, my number one priority if elected leader of the Liberal Democrats is how we can gain votes and seats at every level, but especially in our former heartlands. So the question has to be, how do we win? And since the election, I have been listening, and that is a key way that I lead. I listen, and I have been listening to local campaigners, and they have a wealth of expertise. We have to tap into their expertise. We need a partnership approach, not a top-down approach as a party. And I think the general election review made it quite clear that we are a bit of a faux democracy. We talk about bottom-up in terms of governance, but we do not do it ourselves in the way we campaign. So, the Zoom calls that I have been doing up and down the country, I have been able to offer the opportunity to more than three-quarters of Lib Dem parties in our country to speak to me over the last few weeks, which has given me ideas about where we should go.

But I recognise that we have to do it together. So here are a few of those ideas that have emerged. We must provide better resources for our volunteers and local parties. And we need to invest in our staff and training, and the development of a new generation of Lib Dem campaigners. Now, the Association of Liberal Democrat Councillors and HQ, state and regional parties all have their role to play. And my message to Lib Dem members is, I cannot fix this alone. I need your help.

One of the other areas that we need to do is the message. We heard at the last election that the message was wrong, that people felt that they were not being listened to, and we cannot have that again. So we need to find that broad message, very similar to the time of Charles Kennedy, that broad message where people could see that we were on their side, whether it be on schools, the economy, care for loved ones, or the environment. And my message will be a simple one, which is that the Liberal Democrats will provide the security for every individual to live life as they choose. And we have to revive what liberalism means for this century. But we have got big challenges ahead, too. And the first set of challenges is going to be the super set of elections that we are expecting to have in 2021, which includes the Senedd and Holyrood. We need to build our council base. And that first year of me as a leader, I am going to go around the country helping others to win those seats, listening to their voters, so that when we get to the 2024 election, we can replicate what we did in Oxford, West and Abingdon, where I created a group of progressive centre-left voters, which included a lot of Conservative voters who also identify this way. And we overturned a 9,500 Tory majority in 2017 and went on to achieve the best results in my seat’s history. I want to replicate that nationally.

Torrin Wilkins: So going back to policies like Universal Basic Income, given that we have been speaking about those former heartlands, how in the more Conservative areas, a bit like the South West, which has gone very Conservative in recent years in terms of the MPs that they have sent back to Parliament, how do you think that they will take Universal Basic Income? Do you think they will like it? Do you think they will dislike it?

Will it be too left-wing for them if they are more Conservative? So, what do you think the reception for that will be like?

Layla Moran: Well, I went to Devon and Cornwall. So after the election, I went door-knocking because I wanted to answer this question of whether we are going to win, what is the message that is going to resonate in all parts of the UK? And actually, I purposefully did not go door-knocking in London and the South East because, apart from anything else, I feel like I know it pretty well. I stood in Battersea in 2010. I was born in London. I am an MP for Oxford.

I feel confident that I have got my finger on the pulse of where we have a lot of members and actually where a lot of those Conservative-facing seats where we are closest are. However, that is not good enough. We also need a message that is going to resonate in places like Yorkshire, which was the first place I went, actually, in Kent. We need to be winning back Devon and Cornwall. And I went there and knocked on the door and asked their voters what they think.

And I think what we are doing here in this conversation is a very activist thing to do, which is that we are mapping voters onto left and right axes that they do not identify with. And what we need to primarily do is understand from those electors what matters to them. And what I heard most strongly from Devon and Cornwall, but particularly Cornwall, was a sense of independence and a real sense of community and that we are there for each other.

And they were saying to me that they felt left behind, that they felt that the power lay primarily in Westminster, that they were not listened to. What was very interesting about the conversations was that they were very easy to then tell people, “Yes, you feel this way. So do I. And it is because I am a liberal. And when it came to looking after each other, that slightly more rural, slower-paced mentality, many of us have seen this during coronavirus. They understand the idea of helping each other out in times of need.

So I think I would not necessarily map it as just because Universal Basic Income is, in commentator terms and activist terms, considered centre-left, and because those voters sometimes vote Tory, that they are centre-right, and therefore they could match. I would say start where they are. They talk a lot about a sense of community and helping each other, and let us show them that a policy like Universal Basic Income is an answer to that.

Torrin Wilkins: So, thank you so much for coming on, and we are almost at the end of any questions. My final question was just going to be, if you had to give members of Centre who are also Liberal Democrat members at the same time, three big reasons that they should vote for you. What would they be?

Layla Moran: Thank you. Well, I mean first of all, I have a proven track record of working with others and making a difference to people’s lives and actually, from the position we are now, we need to show people that we can do that, and I led a campaign for a coronavirus compensation scheme for families of key workers who tragically lose their lives in this period. And I did that by getting nearly 100 MPs from all parties, including backbench Conservatives, on board. We won the backing of the Daily Express newspaper, and they credited me, the party and the group of MPs for what we were doing. We got it done.

And that is not with the levers of government behind us or 50, 60 MPs. I did this during this period. And that is what we need in a leader: someone who can get stuff done because that builds credibility and trust. And I am turning my sights now onto the coronavirus crisis. Today, I am pulling together the first all-party parliamentary group for an independent COVID-19 review so that we can avoid a second wave, and I am working across the house to achieve this. I think people’s lives first, then they will know that they can trust you.

But the second reason is that I know how to build a broad base of support, and I described in Oxford West and Abingdon (OxWAb) how we won over thousands of Tory voters, not just once but twice, and in that seat I am supported by a progressive alliance of Liberal Democrats, the Green Party and the Labour Party, you have to do both. There is a bit of a strange conversation at the party going on about who is best placed to take votes off one or the other side. If you look at where we need to win, we need to do both. And the reason why I know this is going to work is because that is exactly what happened under Paddy Ashdown and Charles Kennedy. When we were last successful as a party, we had leaders who understood that you need to take from both sides and appeal to all sides. And that is the approach I am offering, and only I can appeal to both moderate Conservatives and the centre-left.

And the final point is that change is essential. And I ask people to look at where we are now. We went to the dizzy heights of 20-something per cent before the election. We then ended on 12 with one fewer MP. And now the last opinion poll that I saw had us at 6%. Our support has halved since the general election. This is a pivotal moment for the country, and it desperately needs a strong liberal voice. To win again, the party must rebuild trust and support. And the Liberal Democrats can do this by signalling that we are renewed and that we are changing and that we are moving on from the last 10 years where we have got this wrong on successive occasions, and that we have learned from that period. And it does not mean we forget about it. What it means is we show we have learned from it and move forward. And the Liberal Democrats can do this by electing me as leader. I have navigated change and overcome challenges throughout my life, and I will lead the Liberal Democrats to success again.

Torrin Wilkins: So, given that the Labour Party at the moment, with Keir Starmer moving towards the centre ground, do you think that there is an opportunity to essentially pick up those Labour Party people who are on the further left of the spectrum to vote Liberal Democrat?

Layla Moran: Potentially. I think where probably the biggest opportunity lies is with young people who, whilst they might have voted for Labour over the last couple of elections, I do not think are necessarily as tied in to them as people assume they are. And as we know from young people generally, they can move across the political spectrum quite quickly. What I want to do for them is to show them that a hope of a different future. I think they were sold a bit of a unicorn with Jeremy Corbyn, and that was not the answer. That sort of ultra-left-wing, unattainable, top-down, state-driven approach is not the right approach. And, if they want a real difference in their future, it does not lie in the far left; it lies in the liberal and that they were liberal all along. And if you map where their hearts lie, I think a lot of them are Liberal Democrats. It is just that, and a lot of them say this, they feel that they cannot trust us because we never moved on, and the coalition was part of it.

I think now is the moment where we can recapture that young vote. And if we do that, then that is how we rebuild our base for the future. And I do not think that these guys are lost to the far left forever. I think they were always liberal. It is just up to us to make them see that that was always the case.

Torrin Wilkins: Well, that is it for today’s interview. Thank you so much for coming on, Layla.

Layla Moran: And that is it from us today. Really. Thanks so much for inviting me, and what a wonderful initiative. I appreciate it. Thank you so much.

Note: This interview has been edited for grammar, clarity, and flow. The original recording is the final and definitive version.